Curse

Melody Cross · Jun 18, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

I’ve been tinkering with this since the skills came out and its actually a very solid core build:
Glyph of Renewal
Seed of Life
Blessed Aura

The full build I’ve been using is:

HP<--level 10 (i use a minor healing rune so its 11)
Prot<--level 10 (i use a minor prot rune to make this 11)
DF<--level 11 (i use a superior rune and DF head armor to make this 15)

Glyph of Renewal {E}
Seed of Life
Blessed Aura
Gift Of health
Dismiss Condition
Prot Spirit
Glyph of Lesser Energy (don’t use this with seed!)
Spirit Bond/Rebirth/Hex removal (your choice)

Premise: High DF is a plus of course. What this does is it allows you to throw Seed of Life on one target and keep it there pretty much forever. If you have a good tank that means your entire team is taking 30+HP healing every time he gets hit. If you have a bonder in an area where strips aren’t a problem, then your party gains 30+ health whenever ANYONE gets hit.

Issues: it doesn’t work very well with pets on the team or with MMs that have melee range minions. The minions tend to steal agro from tank or team which makes healing output very low. One suggestion is to only run fiends with projectile attacks. No golem, no jagged bones with this build please But even if agro is taken, all is not lost. Bring Dwayna’s Sorrow for minion teams (props to seppi for the idea) and when they get killed your team still gets some healing back…and so does the horde.

Interrupts are also an issue since you’re spamming 2 1 second cast spells every 15 seconds with no way to speed up casting.

Energy can become an issue when you are expected to manage team health after spikes and keep this applied to a tank. Its probably better if you run a hybrid RA style life bonder for your duo who can assist you in healing and condi management instead of the old PvE barrier with life bond combo that spends all his time keeping his prots up.

Where and what: I’ve been using this in HM missions and some vanquishing. It’s really made the fighting a lot easier in hard mode for my groups. I’ll look into throwing it on a DoA and try to play some UWs too sometime to see how it works there as well.

This is still a build in progress. Changes and suggestions are much appreciated.

GGs and Happy healbotting

drakun01 · Jun 18, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

This is sweet! Maybe I really will try Vanquishing sometime. Which is what I have been saying since release >.<

FoxBat · Jun 18, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Oh and here I thought you were going to chain/echo this on a bonder.

Ravi · Jun 18, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

how... can... we achieve 13 hp, 13 prot, 16 df... WITHOUT RUNES?!?

Ewa Kirch · Jun 18, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

If aggro is focused on the Tank, why do we need to be healing the whole party? I agree you can get some amazing numbers, but those numbers tend to come about when the rest of the party isn't taking any damage and the red bars are already full!

Div · Jun 18, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

The full build I’ve been using is:

13 HP
13 Prot
16 DF

^.^numbers denote amount of points in attribute, not total atts with runes, etc.

Um, the highest you can get even with runes is 9+3 healing, 9+3 prot, and 12+1+3 divine favor....unless you're using birthday cupcakes and whatnot >.>

Turbobusa · Jun 18, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

I think for him 12 att is 20...
so 13 is 10 and 16 is 11

BTW if you got a tank, you won't need to heal your party, since its not taking damage, so its much more useful on a bonder.

Lourens · Jun 18, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Arcane Echo --> Seed --> after 10 sec seed?

No need trowing Glyph of Renewal and with 16 Healing 85 Healing the whole party every 5 sec Oo and better energy management it sucks if u ask me

For an Example Arcane Echo --> LoD --> Lod 2x 85hp every 5 sec that rulezzz
with only 16 in healing :P

Tab · Jun 18, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Arcane Echo --> Seed --> after 10 sec seed?

No need trowing Glyph of Renewal and with 16 Healing 85 Healing the whole party every 5 sec Oo and better energy management it sucks if u ask me

For an Example Arcane Echo --> LoD --> Lod 2x 85hp every 5 sec that rulezzz
with only 16 in healing :P

Arcane Echo can't keep the combo going indefinately.
Echoing LoD is a total waste of energy, and this is far more efficient than that. For two LoDs and an Echo you're spending 25 energy and healing 170 to the party. With this you're spending 15 energy and, assuming Seed triggers twice per second, which is fairly low, you're healing 960 to the party.

Lourens · Jun 18, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets

Arcane Echo can't keep the combo going indefinately.
Echoing LoD is a total waste of energy, and this is far more efficient than that. For two LoDs and an Echo you're spending 25 energy and healing 170 to the party. With this you're spending 15 energy and, assuming Seed triggers twice per second, which is fairly low, you're healing 960 to the party.

Only LoD is good enough and the question is is so much healing really a need and in my experiences not al enemys target 1 tank or something

(btw how did u calculate 960hp??)

LoD is only 5 energy

and Heal Party + Glyph of Energy works also very good

Tab · Jun 18, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Only LoD is good enough and the question is is so much healing really a need and in my experiences not al enemys target 1 tank or something

(btw how did u calculate 960hp??)

LoD is only 5 energy

and Heal Party + Glyph of Energy works also very good

So much healing IS needed in hard mode. And if you had read the entire thread, you would know to use it on the bonder so it triggers whenever anyone takes damage.

32*2*15=960
(Heal per hit*hits per second*duration)

You said to use LoD with Arcane Echo, so it's expected that you would use Echo>LoD>LoD. 15+5+5=25.

Heal Party+Glyph lest you heal a decent amount to the party every 30 seconds, and still costs 15 energy.

None of your suggestions are better than a bonder and Renewal + Seed.

Melody Cross · Jun 18, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

before there is any confusion, I need to make a note about the bonder. It does not apply for damage. it applies for attacks. It people are getting hit with ele spells and mesmer hexes, bond does not prot, and neither does it do damage to the monk. therefor, seed will not heal. Use with some caution, but its still a great backline combo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravi

how... can... we achieve 13 hp, 13 prot, 16 df... WITHOUT RUNES?!?

The numbers on the left when you look at the new Profession bar are 13 13 16, not the numbers on the right. the numbers on the right tend to get confusing when people use them to define how much they have in their attributes because they have runes (making their numbers blue) equipped which can change them. I decided not to use those "right side, blue with rune, white without" numbers and use the "true; always white" numbers that show how many attribute points spent, not how many attribute levels I have gained by spending them. No matter what rune you have in what attribute, those point numbers will always stay the same based on the number of points you have spent.

If you're still confused, just run a level 10HP 10prot 11DF build. Those are the numbers you are defining atm. Hope that clears up the misconception.

The nice thing about a build with this kind of healing output is that it is difficult for the tank to control agro in HM and elite areas sometimes. Its very common that something gets loose and swaps to a caster in the midline or you. Thats why this kind of healing output is so impressive. A good tank that looses one or two mobs but retains 4-5 can still be a battery for your team. the healing output from the damage he receives is enough to negate the lost agro from a few mobs scattered around and attacking your midline.

You see this often in HM actually. One powerful AoE attack and your monks are frantically spamming area effect/party heals to get health back up. Agro breaks just a little and someone is kiting frantically...and often runnning through you to get rid of the mob.

With this combo, I've seen several such instances where multiple players where struck with powerful AoE and the pressure from the tank healed them quickly enough to make that AoE damage easily dismissed. The healing output that Seed supplies with 3 mobs on the tank is enough to counter the damage output of another mob pounding the backline in many situations as well. At level 15 DF, the tank is outputting 30Hp every hit. Even if a mob is in the backline hitting you for 60 damage every second, if there are two mobs hitting the tank, you're seed evens out the damage...and you don't have to ball to get the heal like with the 2s cast time healing seed.

Thats a good way to look at it. Seed of Life is Healing Seed on Steroids. If you like that skill, you'll love what this does

And 60 HP per second was just for the group with 2 mobs. 3=90HP. 4=120. Per second or less, depending on attack speed of the characters hitting your tank. I've seen as high as ten with a really good 2-man tank team bodyblocking stairs. It made for a nice 300 HP per second to the team (which was nice because we had a pair of nukes behind the melees and rangers blasting us through our frontline). These numbers are per player. In an 8-man team:

60x8=480
90x8=720
120x8=960 HP per second to the group.

Echo/Arcane Echo combos can be used if you need to spam Seed of Life on multiple players at one time. This build cannot give you that (well, actually you can put it on two players once every 30 seconds). Chaining it as a Mo/Me will not keep it up long enough for many boss fights, and spamming it means you have three down skills for 30 seconds+2 skills down for another 30 while echo and Aecho recharge. Depending on how quickly you can apply this to your team, echoing may be preferable in areas where damage tends to scatter quickly but die easier. Still, I don't trust it with many teams. most players aren't willing to wait for met shower to recharge. its a hard thing to believe they'd sit still for a minute between fights for the monk. they'd rather rush in and blame you when they die, in my experience

Keep asking questions if you're still confused. I'll check back in and answer them if I can. I hope some of you have tried it out in a backline by now and can offer some feedback.

GGs

LouAl · Jun 20, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

@Melody Cross

Good thought to combo those, but I feel the need to tell you that I was barely able to struggle through your first post and could not get through your second. Please don't use full itallics as it is difficult to read. It is really meant to emphasize one word or a phrase, not an entire post...

ArKaiN · Jun 21, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

10+3=13
10+3=13
11+1+3=15

LifeInfusion · Jun 21, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

WHOA, 3 superiors? What are we, 55 monks?

I'd try it if I had a full set of superior armor...

I have my superiors on headgears :/

Melody Cross · Jun 21, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Removed italics and changed to include attribute level in OP...I guess no one uses point spread anymore...

I hope every1 can read it now.

GGs

phool · Jun 21, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

One of the nicest things about this skill and others of its type is that it doesn't appear to have the same tendency to result in mobs target switching as straight prot like shield of absorption, in HM.

btw does this trigger on -0s?

Tsai · Jun 21, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

I was using this yesterday and can confirm it does trigger on 0 damage. Its possible to do with a hero, i was using dunkoro, as long as you disable all the maintained spells otherwise he'll immediatly cancel them. Takes a lil micro management to make him follow behind you far enough so he wont aggro, but close enough that you can cast on him.

Takes a bit of getting used to but seeing everyone getting healed for 30 constantly is prety nice

KamikazeChicken · Jun 21, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Honestly, I don't see the point. If you actually have a tank holding aggro, the extra healing to the rest of the team is useless. I'm glad people enjoy seeing blue numbers flash across the screen, but the majority of those numbers from Seed of Life aren't doing jack. The best use for this skill I've seen is actually to help heal minions, since they count as their own party.

Swift Thief · Jun 22, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Bring res, preferably rebirth.